The Defiler is meant to be the Chaos counterpart to the Space Marine Dreadnoughts and to go forth onto the battlefield and destroy whatever stands in its way, thus paving the way for the rest of the Chaos horde which will inevitably follow in its wake of destruction and utter carnage. Let me start off by saying that I don't think game 3 will feature 4 chaos faction of the different Chaos gods. Allow me to extend the Joseph’s answer. Chaos as such has both positive (surprisingly) and negative aspects, each of the individual (existing except for Malal (or Malice)) god’s embodies certain spectrum o. A Daemon Prince of Chaos. A Daemon Prince is a Human Champion of Chaos who has been elevated to daemonhood as a reward for their actions on the behalf of one of the major Chaos Gods or by the will of Chaos Undivided. Daemon Princes have chosen to trade their Humanity for the god-like power and immortality of a creature of the Warp.
Chaos Undivided Daemon Prince - posted in + HALL OF HONOUR +: You folks remember the plastic Daemon Prince I was working on? Well I went back and did some minor conversions to it, most notably a head swap. As the plastic kit has really ugly looking Daemon faces I used a defiler head instead.Also note the base is from my old metal Daemon Prince. The first Daemon Prince of Chaos, cursed by the god Tzeentch to crown the Everchosen. Crom the Conqueror m - A powerful warlord, Vardek Crom is allied with Archaon. During the Storm of Chaos, Crom led his army to attack the Empire from the east while Archaon attacked from the north.
'With the thirty seven keys of Tzeentch, we open the way for our brothers. With the thousand whispers of Slaanesh, we call to them. With the twelve plagues of Nurgle, we fell their enemies. And with the mighty axe of Khorne, we cut open the world for them.'
- – Amphion and Zathus, Dawn of War: Dark Crusade
Daemon Prince Of Chaos Undivided
'Evils draw men together.'
- – Aristotle
Chaos Undivided is the in-universe theory of Warhammer 40,000 and Warhammer Fantasy that worshiping (and seeking the favor of) all four Chaos Gods allows followers to draw on the strengths of all four Ruinous Powers without their weaknesses. Well, it is just a theory. In the older fluff of 40k and the current fluff of Warhammer Fantasy went even further with the idea, noting religious practices that pay homage to Chaos itself and practices that see the Big Four as a pantheon, or even as facets of Chaos, with the entirety of it being an extension of all things both in the Realm of Chaos and in the material plane. In the latter interpretation, even the Chaos Gods are pawns of fate in the grand scheme of things.
This theory was first postulated in 40k by Lorgar, Primarch of the Word Bearers Legion; even today, the Word Bearers are still the primary followers of Chaos Undivided. although the Black Legion is also a notable follower. Fantasy Chaos Undivided appears more as the secret truth to Chaos, and tends towards only representing the best among the best Chaos worshipers, with Everchosens uniting the varied mono-god groups unto a horde (that falls apart after their death usually).
Note that many followers of Chaos merely exploit the power of Chaos for their own good (or at least try to) and have no real religious affiliation with the gods. However, these groups are sometimes referred to as followers of 'Chaos Undivided,' although the more accurate term is 'unaligned.' This primarily applies to Traitor Legions like the Iron Warriors and Alpha Legion, as well as some renegades, like the Red Corsairs. The current Fantasy Everchosen Archaon, as well as Be'lakor, only see Chaos Undivided as the path to their goals; in the former case the destruction of all things, and in the latter to undivide Chaos and become it in its entirety (a desire also shared by Nagash).
Followers of a single god (such as the World Eaters, Thousand Sons, Emperor's Children, or Death Guard) as well as most Warriors of Chaos hold that followers of Chaos Undivided are weaklings that cannot choose a single god to venerate. It is true that followers of Chaos Undivided will never be held in the favor that single-god worshipers will; however, Legions of Chaos Undivided are also the only Legions that have not fractured into disunited warbands and are actually able to maintain the drilled discipline one would expect of the Space Marines. Likewise the only Chaos Warriors that have ever achieved much of note in the Warhammer World are those who join the various Everchosens in their journeys.
On the other hand, the greatest Champion of Chaos Undivided is Failbaddon and the most loyal servants are the Beastmen. Make of that what you will.
The most well-known to /tg/ follower of Chaos Undivided would be the fang-toothed woman who calls herself 'Cultist', with a close second being her long suffering guardian.
Chaos Undivided used to be thought of as a force of its own, not dependent on the Gods, but Aaron Dembski-Bowden has said that that isn't canon in 40k any more. This is fail as it would be a cool reason to be Undivided besides just trolling the single god lovers. It also would justify the existence of the Black Legion and Word Bearers.
![Chaos daemons wahapedia Chaos daemons wahapedia](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammer40k/images/4/49/TarantulaSentryGun0000.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20130215024336)
Chaos Undivided had its own Mark for about one edition in both 40K and WFB, granting the ability to reroll Psychology (WFB) or Morale (40K) checks; a handy ability, but which got dropped in all subsequent editions.
Furthering the unfair gypping of Chaos Undivided is the newfound inability for Unaligned Chaos players to get anything nice. Both versions of Warhammer now demand a player Mark a Daemon Prince to one of the Four before it can be fielded, and even Black Crusade retconned that it's simply impossible for an Unaligned Heretic who reaches 100 Infamy to ascend to daemonhood unless he or she swears loyalty to Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch or Nurgle in its Tome of Decay expansion. Any GM who understands that Lorgar (Type A, serve them as a Pantheon Undivided) and Perturabo (Type B, don't give a fuck about Gods Undivided) are Daemon Primachs disregards this rule. And they're just the most (in)famous examples, as there were many other Undivided Daemon princes in the fluff such as Barban Falk (Iron Warriors novel series), Kernax Voldarius (Alpha Legion Daemon Prince headhunted by the White Scars), Periclitor the Foresworn (Word Bearers Daemon Prince and Howling Griffons arch nemesis) and Kor Megron (Word Bearers Daemon Prince in the 6th Edition Codex that ascended after proclaiming glory for the dark gods. Note the plural). Note that several of these are (were?) still active even in recent Games Workshop Studio fluff.
Even more confusing is the existence of Be'lakor, who is now retconned into being being the first and onlyDaemon Prince of Chaos Undivided. While Fantasy had no big compunctions on this claim and instead actually gives an intriguing motivation as he's the guy who choses the Everchosen yet can never become one himself, the far future makes him a lot more confusing. If he really was the first and only daemon prince with the support of the big four, then what the hell does that mean for Lorgar and Perturabo above? Even worse, what'll that mean when Abaddon or Archaon finally shuffle off the mortal plane and become daemons?
See, when Be'lakor became a prince, it was under the notion that he was now the plaything of the big four. Problem with that is that he eventually grew serious parent issues, leading to the point where he's actively killing other servants of Chaos to get back his number 1 spot, and one must wonder why the Gods would let that repeat itself. Of course, the cases of Archie and Abby are kept in check by the fact that the big guy's merely guiding them along until he finds the chance to backstab them both to get his spot back. Or in Abaddon's case, he recognises that the Despoiler rejects daemonhood in favour of independence. However, that won't necessarily prevent them from ascending, especially when two literal demigods of war (and a few lesser guys) already slipped past him as Daemon Primarchs of Chaos Undivided (Perturabo received the offer because he wasn't going to pick but needed to be taken care of and Lorgar received it in exchange for selling the universe out).
And now with Master of Mankind, the daemon in Abbadon's sword has been revealed to be of Chaos Undivided as well. Drach'nyen, see, is the daemon born from the first time a human murdered another (not just killed, it's specified, but murdered). The act reverberates through the Warp on so many levels that every God's 'choir' sees something of themselves in Drach'nyen, so it wouldn't be attacked as a daemon of Nurgle would a daemon of Tzeentch, for example. So yeah, daemons of Chaos Undivided are alive and well at the cutting edge of the fluff. Invariably they are incredibly powerful. There are also some ancient Daemon Kings who were usurped by the four and bent the knee in exchange for survival and do their own things in the great game as well, though these guys are Undivided only through technicality.
Another example of a Greater Daemon of Chaos Undivided was Madail, who worked under the commands of all four Chaos Gods in an attempt to corrupt Sanguinius into replacing Horus as the Warmaster of Chaos.
So the issue all boils down to GW being unable to keep their own lore straight, yet so terrifyingly afraid of actually retconning anything. And still they retcon in the most idiotic way. Noteworthy example is Warhammer Fantasy, now called Age of SkubmarAge of Sigmar or the recent editions of 40k.
TL;DR Chaos Undivided has common sense combined with Warp-empowerment and so is full of win and sanity. You don't need the favor of one Chaos God when you can combine cunning with strength and endurance and perfection. Really, it seems Chaos Undivided forces are usually only against the Imperium because of a grudge which leads them to extremes such as spikes and mutilations and human sacrifices for power.
In an odd way, it might be possible that Chaos Undivided is favored most by the four gods and we just haven't realized it. Ignoring the obvious success enjoyed by Chaos Undivided far beyond that of any singular devotions, Chaos Undivided followers (whether through worship or not) don't fall apart, are largely not self-destructive (other than the regular old backstabbing of rivals), and so Chaos can feed off of their psyche smaller amounts of what they want than from their own followers but that amount indefinitely grows as the Undivided followers' numbers and individual power also grows.
Chaos Daemons Wahapedia
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How does it work?: Daemon Princes of Chaos Undivided |
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Subject: How does it work?: Daemon Princes of Chaos Undivided | ||
Stealthy Space Wolves Scout | As I strive to be a lore-mastering nerd of 40K canons, I stumbled upon a baffling matter during my ascension to enlightenment: if an individual is gifted with the curse of his/her respective Chaos Patron, said mortal being become more and more tied to that which is worshiped. At one point, through an tribute, the mortal forges a pact with the Patron and become an extend of its might, and the ascension is complete. Now correct me where I'm wrong, but from what I've gathered, the four Chaos Gods are said to favor more to the ones that shows more dedication to them., so why'd any of them grant daemonhood to an individual who is not aligned to him (or the she who thirsts)? If the individual is now forever absolved into his/her patron, to what patron is a Daemon Prince of Chaos Undivided aligned? Who resurrects such a being but for one of the four Gods should the individual fall? Think of this: if furries are supposedly the purposeless spawn of the Chaos Waste, is the Chaos Waste even sentient enough to resurrect its subject? And if the Chaos Waste is not responsible for such an act, who/what is? I know one can see the Chaos Parthenon as different aspects of Chaos Undivided, but last I check, there are constant conflict amongst the four forces, and the Realm of Chaos shifts as the Gods territories fluctuate... and why would any of them grant such a huge favor to an individual that will take no part in their most immediate conflict? So do they like, just received so much gift from the four Gods that they ascended without the Chaos Gods even knowing it? And on the hierarchy of Daemons, are they marginally on the same level as the Greater Daemons, or are they above or beneath them? (As in, how the followers of Chaos view such an individual, should a Greater Daemon also honors them on a battlefield? How would a Daemon Prince react if is presented with a Greater Daemon?) Sauces are appreciated. | |
Subject: How does it work?: Daemon Princes of Chaos Undivided | ||
Lesser Daemon of Chaos | My sauce is currently out of reach (per both Codecise) however, as I understand, CSM Daemon Princes rank less than even Daemons Daemon Princes and Greater Daemons, respectively. I would imagine that a Daemon Prince of Chaos Undivided likely becomes aligned some point down the line unless supreme of will, however the whole thing comes down to understanding the nature of the Warp and the Chaos Gods themselves. This would make 3 different threads if I were to rant about Chaos and the Gods and how they are related, so I'll give you an abbreviated from what I've gathered. Think of the Warp as one giant super-computer composed of emotion and void, simultaneously omni-present and non-existent, all at once. It is the ultimate Paradox. The Chaos Gods within the Warp are composed entirely of the Warp, except it's parts of the warp that have coalesced together and generated a basic sentient intelligence maligned to the emotions that created it. This, in itself, renders an even greater paradox. Man creates Chaos, Chaos affects Man. Man rebels against it's Creation. Chaos grows Stronger. The ultimate threat. How does this relate to Chaos Undivided? If the Big 4 are subservient to their own domains as well as the Warp itself, then so could a Daemon Prince, Undivided. Something even greater lurks and is appeased enough to ensure that the Ruinous Powers bestow their blessings equally, per the conditions met for Daemonhood. | |
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/11 09:51:06 'Well there's something I've been meaning to tell you about the college on the edge of the town. No one should ever go there. You know it's bad, bad, bad. It gets worse every school year, but man those freaking teachers are raaaaad! Yea-YEAH-yeah yeah.' -Babycakes - China, Il. http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/559359.page#6178253 <--Link to my CSM Army lists. | ||
Subject: How does it work?: Daemon Princes of Chaos Undivided | ||
Irked Necron Immortal |
I think, IIRC, that worshipping chaos undivided doesn't mean that when you ascend you ascend undivided. You must declare or make a pact with a patron of one of the major gods. Take the word bearers or iron warriors for example. They're just as likely to get possessed by demons of Khorn as they are Slaanish, but they still worship chaos in-general, and they will welcome any gift of chaos. | |
Subject: How does it work?: Daemon Princes of Chaos Undivided | ||
Alluring Sorcerer of Slaanesh | In Undivided you supplicate all the Gods in equal measure. If you require the services of Khorne, you have to make sure that an offering has been made to the other three to keep them happy, otherwise they might throw a Nurlging in the works, or it's equivalent, to scupper your plan. Each God in turn grants you part of it's power and ascends you to Daemonhood, or spawndom if you are unlucky. Take Perturabo for instance. After the Iron Cage Incident he sacrificed the Gene seed of the slain Imperial Fists to the Chaos Gods and they rewarded him with Daemonhood. Index Astartes: Iron Warriors:
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/11 13:46:51 | ||
Subject: Re:How does it work?: Daemon Princes of Chaos Undivided | ||
Morphing Obliterator | Hi. First things first: I recently posted a lot of quotes about the nature of the Chaos Gods. Look here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/120/560992.page#6230292 As far as I know there are three ways to understand Chaos Undivided: 1) Worshipping all Chaos Gods as a whole. All the gods are seen as manifestations of a bigger concept, Chaos itself. Daemon Princes of this kind are rare (I can only think of Lorgar and the Word Bearers) and the result of a cooperative effort done by the gods. The Chaos Gods hate each other, so it is really rare. 2) Worshipping all Chaos Gods in turns. Black Legion and others do this. They favor all gods, praying to one or another depending on the situation. The result would be something of a hybrid Daemon Prince or a marked one if the ascension is caused by a single god. 3) Worshipping a minor Chaos God. There are four big Chaos Gods, but there are many (perhaps countless) lesser gods. On the matter of minor Chaos Gods there is very little information in the last editions. You need to go back to Rogue Trader (1st edition) and the book Realm of Chaos: The Lost and the Damned (1990). Pages 85-103 are dedicated to the Lesser Powers of Chaos, allowing you to design your own and to create a full army to depict a new faction around the Lesser Power you created. Lots of stuff there. On the matter of what they are: Realms of Chaos: The Lost and The Damned. Page 86. 'The Lesser Powers of Chaos'. 'There are four great Chaos Powers (...). However, there are smaller whirlpools within the warp, lesser vortices spinning around the fringes of greater powers, growing, converging, dividing and eternally moving (...)' 'There are also other powers which (...) are in the process of creation'. Another option is given: 'ancient Powers whose potency has waned'. A fourth option is given in RoC too: an independent Daemon who (same page from RoC:LatD) 'owe no allegiance to any Power. Such creatures are small parts of the warp, discreet whirlpools of energy (...) fully conscious.' This kind of Daemon could have followers of his own. A nice guy called Kweethul Gristlegut who is based on the Skaven race is given as an example. And, of course, we have Malal, the fifth Chaos God, as a fifth option: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Malal#.UoDev_nTvTo As you can see, chaos is chaotic, and there are many ways to ascend to daemonhood. | |
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/11 15:47:57 ‘Your warriors will stand down and withdraw, Curze. That is an order, not a request. (…) When this campaign is won, you and I will have words’ Rogal Dorn, just before taking the beating of his life. from The Dark King, by Graham McNeill. | ||
Subject: Re:How does it work?: Daemon Princes of Chaos Undivided | ||
Terrifying Rhinox Rider | ab·solve əbˈzälv,-ˈsälv/Submit verb 1. set or declare (someone) free from blame, guilt, or responsibility. 'the pardon absolved them of any crimes' synonyms: exonerate, discharge, acquit, vindicate; More forgive, pardon da001: please see attachment. | |
Subject: How does it work?: Daemon Princes of Chaos Undivided | ||
Morphing Obliterator | @pelicaniforce: thank you, I didn´t know that. | |
‘Your warriors will stand down and withdraw, Curze. That is an order, not a request. (…) When this campaign is won, you and I will have words’ Rogal Dorn, just before taking the beating of his life. from The Dark King, by Graham McNeill. | ||
Subject: How does it work?: Daemon Princes of Chaos Undivided | ||
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General |
There are other chaos gods. There are only 4 major gods. If you worship one of the minor ones hard enough and you assend you will be marked by that god, which probably will not look like any of the major 4 If you worship the 4 major gods and all the minor gods equally and you assend you will be marked by no god. Ala Lorgar and Perturbo. Daemon Prices of Chaos Undivided. There are scores of others. | |
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Subject: How does it work?: Daemon Princes of Chaos Undivided | ||
Fixture of Dakka | I you worship chaos undivided you can get the attention of any of the dark gods, but also their wrath! | |
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